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Forums >> Revit Building >> Technical Support >> Wall hosted components in groups............
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Working on multi-story condo project with repeating and mirrored unit types. Found out early on not to align and lock components together. I am having rare cases where wall hosted coat shelf w/ rods are flipping opposite direction on the wall when mirroring. Even have one wall hosted upper cabinet turning 90 degree on the wall. Anyone else having these "Gremlin" issues? Thanks!
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Yes, Gremlins like this will occur in groups. The best practice is to not use wall hosted components in a group and certainly not use them if the host is not included within the group. You may be better off if you have a Left and Right version of a unit to make two seperate groups for each orientation.
HTH
Tom
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Hey BIMQueen...your issue with the coat shelf w/ rods sounds similar to the problems I was having in the question I posted on here. Revit really has some issues with mirrored groups. I've had inconsitancies with created-in-place families, ceilings, any mounted fixture (wall, ceiling etc), and now line-based families. Do you do alot of condo projects? We do mostly hotels....and grouping rooms is such a necessity...you know what I mean...but there are definitely alot of issues. I ended up placing all of the curtain shelfs manually in the project I was working on, which wasn't a big deal because there weren't thaaat many units, but if it was a larger project that would be a pain in the rear end to have to do that when it should work with groups. Oh well...tomdinmn is definitely right when he said to create two different groups for each group orientation...it makes things alittle more confusing and takes more coordination when increasing the number of groups you need but in the long run it will probably work best... Adam
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We do a lot of condo or senior living type projects that typical units are common. So to have duplicates of the same type increases the risk of error in similarity. The cabinets that I am putting into groups are mirroring okay outside of the one, same with the shelf and rods. Decided on the isolated closet Gremlin to just use model lines and maybe for the one upper cabinet, I will make a cabinet that does not need to be hosted by a wall. That in general may need to be the route we go, creating a library of non-hosted casework. Thanks for your reply!
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" I will make a cabinet that does not need to be hosted by a wall. That in general may need to be the route we go, creating a library of non-hosted casework. "
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After our first project in Revit, we decided to make all objects such as grab bars, towel bars, bathtubs, cabinets, wall sconces, etc. as non wall hosted objects. Alot of the premade Revit familes already have a non hosted family inside of the hosted family. But I have found if you add the nesscary walls to the group, which we do when creating bathroom groups, then you can use wall hosted families, as long as those walls are consistant for every floor. The problem with adding walls to groups if your floor to floor heights are not the same for every floor and you want your walls to extend to the level above, if that happens you have create a new group for each specific floor height change...it does it complicated...As long as you name your groups logically, it isnt thaaaaat bad having multiple groups...but yah it does significantly increase the risk of error... We have also thought about getting tricky and creating the main walls without the finish gwb layer, and then making a wall type that is just gwb and adding that to a group so that we could wall mount families to it.....after thinking about how complicated that would be, we decided not to...but hey who knows it could work for you or someone else. I've also found that there are less problems with groups if you completely create the intial group before mirroring it. If you try adding and removing families later, Revit seems to get confused and more Gremlins seem to show up... Adam
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Another tip to add to the group discussion is that it is best to make all changes to a "master" group. The "master" group is the initial one you created. It is best to note to yourself and others which group that is and only operate in it rather than some copy of it 15 stories up and 10 units over in your project. It is also permissable to have nested groups which work well for small defined areas such as bathrooms and kitchens. If you can include the walls in the nested group you can get away with using wall hoted components. Unit/demising walls are best not included in a group unless you are lucky enogh to have a "double" wall between units where one side of the double wall can be included in your group. There are many other tips from Chis Zoog's class at AU2005 entitled "Rinse and Repeat". You can access from the Autodesk subscription center or if yu are a member of AUGI they where at one time giving out login ID's to the AU2005 site to download the handouts.
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running off your seperate GWB component............. I was trying to think of a way to tie to some sort of reference plane........ maybe thinner than GWB even, more of a surrface membrane. For my current project it is not the case for kitchens, but sometimes we will duplicate the same kitchen or bath layout. Not always with the same walls or surrounding layout. For the most part, groups are working great once I found not to constrain elements together and disallow joins on end walls. Held off grouping as long as I could, but the kitchen with the one 'Gremlin' in the upper cabinet is one that was totally redesigned after I had grouped, mirrored and copied to couple of levels. Thanks for the continued input!
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Yah that always happens, you think you're done and then they change stuff on you...and Revit rarely seems to allow for changes as smoothly as it seems like it should...haha... I've thought about the surface membrane idea as well. Families have to be hosted by either walls, floors, or ceilings...the thinest you can make a wall is 1/16"...sooo...you could create a wall that thin and make it the wall finish like paint or wall covering or something like that....and then host the families to it. If you did that though, you would have to make sure to set your dimensions units to the nearest 1/8th inch or something like that....higher then 1/16 so you dont end up with goofy dimensions in your rooms. I've never actually tired this on a project before....but in theory it seems like it would work...if you are that determined to use hosted families. It is kind of a pain in the butt having both hosted and non-hosted families in your library and making sure they are both coordinated right in a project, expecially if you have multiple people working on it who may not be as maticulous with organization as they should. The ideal firm using Revit would have someone who's job is to specifically go through projects and make sure everything is organized on the correct workset and that all of the correct families and groups are used...my firm is small so we are not lucky enough to have someone for that...haha... Adam
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I will check out the "Rince and Release" Any of you above going to AU this year? It will be my first time. Looking forward to Revit classes pertaining to groups, families, options........... okay looking forward to everything.
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Sadly I am not attending AU this year. I have been there the past three years running and it is an amazing learning and networking experience. For those of you going take all the Revit classes you can get into. The networking events with other Revit users prove just as valuable as the formal classes.
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I am not going to AU this year either...I was actually just in Vegas a few weeks ago for a wedding (no I didnt get married) and to check out some buildings I worked on...it was my first time there. It's a pretty cool place to visit...while you're at the Venitican you'll have to check out the physical model for the addition they are starting on...it's pretty impressive. There is also another pretty cool physical model in the Bellagio hotel. The model is of the 8 billion dollar Resort they are building between the Bellagio and the Monte Carlo. It's pretty incredible actually...there are some interesting condo towers being built in that project, one was designed by Norman Foster...I cant remember the names of the other architects involved...there was like 5 or 6 major name architecture firms who designed buildings for it. They've already started construction, and its suppose to be complete in the fall of 2009. Ah...Vegas....the memories...now I really wish I was going back...You'll have to let me know how it goes and what you think of everything. Have you been to Vegas before?
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This is my first trip to Vegas. I decided as long as the company was paying for my trip there to stay an extra night, so I'm going early Sunday to get an extra day of looking around. I'll definately check out the models you listed. Spend the Sunday and Monday sight seeing and resting. Really looking forward to hearing more about other Revit projects. This has been fun just brain storming on the forum, it will be great to sit and chat with other users.
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Nice...you're going to have a good time I'm sure. While I was there I spent one whole day walking up and down the strip and still didnt get to see everything. Even though, being an architectural purest, I felt the architecture in Las Vegas was pretty gaudy and certainly out of context, it was still impressive to see non the less. So many interesting details everywhere and its crazy to think about how much money is spent on all of the architecture in that city, it's pretty cool...I ended up taking over 400 pictures. If you don't have alot of time to spend there, the resorts you'll definitely want to check out are the Mandalay Bay, the Luxor, NYNY, Ceasers Palace, the Mirage, the Venitian, Paris, and the Bellagio....the fountain show in front of the Bellagio can keep you occupied for hours...plus the roulette table at Bellagio was very good to me....haha. Also while your there, just as a tip, if you're looking for something to do one night, I would recommend checking out old Las Vegas and Fremont street at the far end of town, its a street cover by this huge canopy structure....there are some cool restraunts and bars which are more reasonably priced then the rest of the strip. Anyways, yah I'm sure the whole trip is gonna be fun. Aside from just being in Vegas and all of that crazyness, the whole Revit/Autodesk experiance should be priceless. How long have you been using Revit?
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Just started my current project in the spring of this year. Within the first couple of days, I was totally sold on the benefits of Revit over AutoCAD w/ ADT. Former Microstation user also......... while they both have features I would like to see Revit incorporate, Revit Rules. The canapy you mentioned......... is that the one with the moving light show? My mom and step-dad are retired and travel A LOT. They just had a Vegas vacation this year........ that was one of the things Mom mentioned. Will definately break in some good walking shoes before I go.......
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