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Joined: Fri, May 12, 2006
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All,
Here is a message that I posted on the Graphisoft forum for ArchiCAD. I am interested in understanding the same thing from a Revit perspective:
All,
I know that this topic has been discussed in the past, however, what I am trying to decide is whether to move my office to ArchiCAD or Revit.
Currently we are using SketchUp for the design process and Autocad LT for the documentation portion of our projects.
We have decided that using software applications like ArchiCAD will yield efficiencies in our organization on a number of levels; however, we are trying to decide between AC and Revit.
I have obtained trial copies of both and have gone through tutorials and sample projects. What I am looking for is opinions from this forum as to why AC is better than Revit - what can't Revit do that AC can?
Incidentally, we specialize in residential and light commercial work with a modern emphasis.
Thanks in advance for everyone's assistance,
DJ Landreneau
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we just went throught he same process. We invested about 30 hours in each program, and decided on Revit. We liked the user interface and archtiectural tools of Archicad, but ended up being sold on Revit's constraint system, which it seems if used properly, gives you great design flexibility (ie; move a floro level and have all elements constrained to it adjust accordingly). we also figured out that the massing tool is a powerful modeling element that can be used in conjunction with software such as Rhino.
over all, we have been using it for only a month, but have converted all of our active projects to it. We area small firm, sounds like we do the same dsort of work, but we also use unusual forms, which at first I was worried that Revit would not be able to handle, but have bene impressed with it's capabilities to date.
Good luck. best I can suggest is choose one that you like and commit to modelling an active project so taht you give it a real life test drive.
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We end up doing some unusual forms also, lots of cantilevers and leaned walls. ArchiCAD handles this as a paramter on the wall. I finally figured out to do it in Revit using mass blend.
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The Mass blend is an incredibly powerfull tool,a nd it creates parametric conenctions between elements that are constructed from it. This is the area that Revit is strong in. THis is just a hnch, but I ma not sure that ArchiCad can introduce this ont heir current software platform which is 20 years old.
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I am a long time Revit user in ATL and saw your post and was just curious to see how Revit was going for you. How long have you been using it now? Did you find it a benefit to use with residential design work?
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Hi, I am a from Australia and a current user of Both Revit Building 2008 and of Archicad 11 as do contract work for 2 companies that use each of the systrems. a bit on me. I have been using different cad programs for over 15 years now ranging from Autocad R10 up to 2005, 3D addons to Autocad r14 DRC auto and Karelmate professional, Vectorworworks Architect with renderworks and landmark from 9.5 to 12.5, Revit 8.0, 9.1 and now 2008 as well as Archicad 10 and 11 so i feel i am well versed to speak on issues that people may have. If i was to choose a platform when the choices were revit 8.1 or Archicad 9.0 i would have chosen Revit 8.1 as at this stage plotmaker wasnt intergrated with Archicad, and i feel this was a huge drawback of the program and made updating and editing nearly finished documents a time consuming process. Once Archicad 10 came out this all changed and it is now an all in one program. Both Revit and Archicad are now great programs,but on a day to day basis i am constantly frustrated with Revit. Things are just a lot harder to achieve in Revit. The family system in appauling and there is no intelligent search function. the families are very hard to edit and when you do you actually create another object in the file increasing its size, let alone the fact that you have to click 5 dialoge boxes deep the ok all the way out again.. In Archicad the search function is brilliant and changes to library parts is a breeze with very visual interface all in the one dialoge box only 1 click deep. This constant clicking through dialoge boxes is all the way through revit and the fact that it looks like a data base with no graphical interface is painful. In Archicad the complex profiller is a dream meaning i can have my wall with setdowns, slab setdown and edgebeam, eave details, cornice, flashing detail and anything else i want to be on the wall for instance profilled mouldings all as one wall in my favouites list. All i have to do is use this wall an the whole lot is placed. This is all able to be schuled as different items as well.. On controlling your document, we have all grown to use layers to give us control over your document.. Well in revit there are no layers. At first you go great.... but wait until you try to isolate a certain type of wall... you cant as all walls are in the same set, in Archicad you still have layers and this is a God sent and critical to have when trying to isolate or group certain things. for instance when you export to DWG all your walls are placed on the one layer... a nightmare if someone else needs to just see masonary walls.... get my drift.. With Archicad the production of different sets of documents ie. Presentation sets, DA sets, CC sets, DWG export, DGN export, PDF creation where you require your documents to look a certain way and with certain pen thinckness and coulour and isolation of different things for different consultants is all just a click of the mouse within Archicad once you have set up your template file. In Revit you have to prepare all of these manually each time you wish to produce them. Also you get a PDF and3D pdf creator inbuilt in Archicad. Yes i know you can have saved print sets but this doesnt change how the documents look for instance if you want solid fill in walls for presentation and hatching for CC documents you have to change this manually.. In Archicad you just publish that set and its done in the click of the mouse.. In Revit i have and still do find it cumbersome to produce Construction documents, as there are very few so called drafting tools to complete your documents, although it can still be done as i have completed a few medium size projects. In Archicad from Version 10 onwards there are so many easier to use drafting tools to help you get the job out the door. I agree with a few people here that what ever you chooseyou have to spend the time and do whole projects and not revert to any 2D programs to complete your documents. Get professional training as i have done for for all programs that i have used. Yes it costs money but it costs you a lot more sitting around trying to work things out for your self. I found that the experience of the Graphisoft team in Austraila is far better as they have been doing this for some 20 years and it is one company Australia wide where as Autodesk is a lot of resellers. The support system from Graphisoft is a lot better to as you get to speak to a real architect with years of experience in both the Program and Architecture. where as with autodesk it gets logged then sent to the US and if they think its important they will get back to you maybe in a week or so. Archicad also have interactive tutorials and virtual tutors that make learning it a breeze, compared to the written tutorial from Revit... If you are looking to change to BIM i feel the superior program is Archicad but dont beleive me get both and trial them for free for 30 days. But you need to go into this with an open mind on interface and who makes the program. Try some simple operations like changing properties of a wall, window, library item such as one of the cabinets, do you want to look at lines of text or pictures that describe things. Try searching for a particular library item. try exporting a file to dwg and open in autocad to see which is better to use. Also if you are on Mac then you can only use Archicad as Autodesk do not support macs. yes you can run windows on a Mac but ive spoken to a few people doing this and they say its not the best solution. Archicad is also cheaper to maintain with there subscription service than Revit so in the end it costs you less. What ever youi decide.spend the time, get professional training both basic and advanced..
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thanks for sharing that JasonP, i found it quite insightful. i didn't like the Plot Maker in Archicad either. i heard they intergrated it.
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best regards, coreed,aia bmpArchitects,Inc. "Revit has to be implemented, Not installed." Long Live Revit |
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Just a minor comment about Archicad vs Revit. I started with Revit 8 (after using AEC/ADT/AutoCad 2.5) and now am running Revit 2008 at subscription price of $695 same as Archicad. About one year ago I made the costly mistake of buying Archicad 10, almost $5000.00 an then spent another $1500 in addon software to try an produce a project and found that almost all parametric objects had to be purchased to do a project, unless of course you could do GDL programming and that to my knowledge is the only way to get true parametric objects(that is BIM), not just object drafting) and my dealer finally admitted most large firms have staff trained in GDL programming. Up until about two weeks ago when I got tired of purchasing objects that were parametric I have now dumped Archicad and now back to Revit. I found the more complex profiles(altough a good tool) that wer used Archicad became slower than Revit. Another issue I found their are not many free/ shared sites for Archicad objects (unless you just want dumb objects, not BIM related), since everyone wants to sell the objects because they have spent the time learning GDL programming, where with Revit you can easly create fully parametic famlies (BIM) and the users help each other by sharing those famlies. Just last week I wanted a PGT Single Hung window that when a section was cut thr it the sash/frame profile that look correct, not just a rectangle, within 2 hours I had a parametric window that I could use for all of their Windguard units, I personally could not have done this with Archicad in two months. The learnig cure is much less in Revit, I went from ADT to Revit without any training and was highly productive in two months, with Archicad it took several months to feel productive even after taking four days of training and watching videos. Archicad does have some nice features, Virtual Trace is kind of nice in 11, the Truss maker is a good start,but is difficult to construct a truss as built in the USA, I do like not needing to pick OK so much in dialoges, thirr dimension routine is prror at best. Lightworks rendering engine is much better that Accrender, which I uderstand may go away. This of course is my own opinion after using both, I am however doing a pro/con summary after have taken notes using both softwares.
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" The family system in appauling and there is no intelligent search function. the families are very hard to edit and when you do you actually create another object in the file increasing its size, let alone the fact that you have to click 5 dialoge boxes deep the ok all the way out again.. In Archicad the search function is brilliant and changes to library parts is a breeze with very visual interface all in the one dialoge box only 1 click deep. " I disagree with some of this. Revit family creation is very simple and logical if you take the time to figure things out and there is no need to learn any sort of programming you want to make a custom item unlike GDL in ArchiCAD. Agreed, there are too many dialogue boxes, it would be much better if it was done all from the one in Revit which I've heard maybe a new improvement on the way... " This constant clicking through dialoge boxes is all the way through revit and the fact that it looks like a data base with no graphical interface is painful. " Yes agreed, GUI needs improving but still after using it for 7 years i find things second nature. " In Archicad the complex profiller is a dream meaning i can have my wall with setdowns, slab setdown and edgebeam, eave details, cornice, flashing detail and anything else i want to be on the wall for instance profilled mouldings all as one wall in my favouites list. All i have to do is use this wall an the whole lot is placed. This is all able to be schuled as different items as well.. " You can easily embed profiles in walls for mouldings, cornices, skirtings etc. You can easily use hosted sweeps to apply slab edges, fascias, gutters, flashings etc ->agreed some of this could be done better in Revit with regards to how this hosted sweeps meet at corners where the plane differs. " On controlling your document, we have all grown to use layers to give us control over your document.. Well in revit there are no layers. At first you go great.... but wait until you try to isolate a certain type of wall... you cant as all walls are in the same set, in Archicad you still have layers and this is a God sent and critical to have when trying to isolate or group certain things. for instance when you export to DWG all your walls are placed on the one layer... a nightmare if someone else needs to just see masonary walls.... get my drift.. " In Revit you have object styles & sub categories - as much as Autodesk like to hide this they are essentially layers... You can create additional subcategories of the main objects styles as needed. Spend 1 minute and you can create a view in revit showing just your masonry walls - by either using hide in view or a simple filter in your visibility settings. I belive the way layers/object styles have been predefined and locked down in Revit is a god send as you can't end up with a wall in the wrong layer... " With Archicad the production of different sets of documents ie. Presentation sets, DA sets, CC sets, DWG export, DGN export, PDF creation where you require your documents to look a certain way and with certain pen thinckness and coulour and isolation of different things for different consultants is all just a click of the mouse within Archicad once you have set up your template file. In Revit you have to prepare all of these manually each time you wish to produce them. Also you get a PDF and3D pdf creator inbuilt in Archicad. " Can all be done in Revit as well. Easily setup View Templates to do this that can be applied to any view within 2 seconds... From these comments it sounds like you haven't used revit to its potential and have an obvious bias to ArchiCAD - which is easy to do when you have been using another software first and want the new software to work the same as the old one... " In Revit i have and still do find it cumbersome to produce Construction documents, as there are very few so called drafting tools to complete your documents, although it can still be done as i have completed a few medium size projects. In Archicad from Version 10 onwards there are so many easier to use drafting tools to help you get the job out the door. I agree with a few people here that what ever you chooseyou have to spend the time and do whole projects and not revert to any 2D programs to complete your documents. Get professional training as i have done for for all programs that i have used. Yes it costs money but it costs you a lot more sitting around trying to work things out for your self. " Sorry but you've opened a can of worms there... I'm so sick of people who say revit can't do or makes it difficult to do CD drawings. I can detail quicker in Revit than i can in any other program including AutoCAD. I can even create a 3D view of the detail in a matter of seconds... Sorry but that is such a cop out. " I found that the experience of the Graphisoft team in Austraila is far better as they have been doing this for some 20 years and it is one company Australia wide where as Autodesk is a lot of resellers. The support system from Graphisoft is a lot better to as you get to speak to a real architect with years of experience in both the Program and Architecture. where as with autodesk it gets logged then sent to the US and if they think its important they will get back to you maybe in a week or so. Archicad also have interactive tutorials and virtual tutors that make learning it a breeze, compared to the written tutorial from Revit... " Your joking aren't you? Autodesk is a lot of resellers? ROFLMAO. I am no Autodesk lover, but they are the most experienced and most used software provider in the world. There was a quote I found interesting "Autodesk software is used by 100% of the fortune 100 companies" Responses from Autodesk support depending on priority of the issue can be a few hours or a couple of days and the requests go to your closest region head office - In australia's case I believe its Singapore. But generally you'll find you have two levels of support with Revit, your reseller and Autodesk if you need it. I only utilise the Autodesk one as my requests are usually bug fixes or function enhancements. Sometimes this can be a little frustrating as languages barriers can be little irritating with Singapore being the support centre. The written tutorials in Revit are excellent in 2008 I've been told by a number of users. Back in pre 8.1 etc they were pretty average along with the help system, but it has been vastly improved. There are quite a number of functions of ArchiCAD 11 that I would love to see in Revit, but I understand that this is completely reciprocated. Whatever product you find you can pick up and start using the easiest is the one you should go for... In my case it was Revit but when i looked ArchiCAD was at v6.5 and it was a dog to use. Personally I think that only since the existence of Revit has Graphisoft made any real improvements to their software as they had some real competition and ideas to steal...
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Regards,
Chris.
Co-Founder | BIM Consultant | Software Designer  B. Arch)
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Mr Spot I agree, after having used Archicad for one year I found that it did not save the amount of time that can be saved in using Revit. I feel that I am cutting 30-35 percent of my time in creating CD,s. Objects in Archicad are basically dumb objects unless you are into GDL programming, of which is powerfull, but I find it difficult to find time to complete projects without being a programmer.
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Hi All, Im not going to sit here have a written tiff with anyone on this site about either program. I was just shaing my experiences. Out of Archicad and Revit though it was Revit that i used first for 12 months.. On the training side of things i was talking about in Australia and in particulary training for the transition from a 2D cad such as autocad to a BIM solution and in this areana Graphisoft has a lot more experience. A recent independent survay was done in Australia on cad users and of the compaies that actually had revit only 7% used it to do the complete project as most of them just used it for design and then reverted to Autocad. I would have never used Archicad prior to version 10. When i first saw Revit coming from vectorworks i thought it was sensational, such a great leap ahead, then i discovered Archicad. In Australia we have some virtual Tutors that are a great way to learn and with this the whole process is so easy. I admit that the Revit tutorial i did was for 8.1 and was written, if there is now an interactive one i would love to see it. Any way..My advice to anyone looking... try both and choose the one that works the way you think... cheers
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I feel that if you are going to really comment on Archicad then you should have an educated knowledge of the existing product. To base all you comments on version 6.5 is like me comparing Archicad 11 with Revit 4 and that is some thing i just wouldnt do. Compare latest versions please. Do your self justice and download the latest version for free and use for 30 days and do the Basic interactive guide which is also free and downloadable. If REvit can now produce PDFs without any other 3rd party software i must have missed where to find it. It is only as i have a 3rd party program that i can. if this is not true i will stand corrected. Any way i feel ive said my bit. Cheers to all and what ever you use... spend the time to learn it well
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JasonP Can I have the Archicad download link & any other recommended forum/ tutorial link...It is good to hear that archicad is rather user-friendly now...I will give it a try Thanks in advance
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here you go aleo2 https://trialregistration.graphisoft.com/ Good Luck !!
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best regards, coreed,aia bmpArchitects,Inc. "Revit has to be implemented, Not installed." Long Live Revit |
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Hi Mr Spot, Ok im in REvit 2008 now and just created a new sub category under walls called timber stad walls, now how do i go about changing all me existing timber stud walls to this sub category. in the family types i have the following options. Basic wall, Stacked wall and curtain wall and i can find no where in the any of the edit dialogue boxes for this wall where i can change it to this newly created sub category. Thanks
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