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Forums >> Community >> The Studio >> Revit 7 Preview and XML, X3D and SVG
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Joined: Thu, May 13, 2004
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Want to have a look on Revit 7?
http://downloads.taylor-tech.com/pdfs/Revit_7_Preview_Guide.pdf
And here a little more about Revit 7
http://www.fabrication.ald.utoronto.ca/workshops/revit/revit.htm
I think Revit is a wonderful program, but it could be better.
I made a wishlist for Revit 7.
A Chamfer tool to make the scenes realistic with no sharp edges.
A Camera Match Utility like in VIZ with lens settings and a horizon.
And NURBS for making smooth things.
Possible to program Plugins to Revit for a new Open Architecture.
Give Revit a Script language.
Not only - Accurender - but make it possible to choose the renderer you like.
Make it possible to export Revit scenes with materials intact to VIZ and 3DS.
A file format based on XML eg. X3D and SVG
to make it possible to communicate with all other CAD and 3D applications
And to secure your drawings for future with XML that is plain text readable in Notepad.
Some of my points on my wishlist you can find in the new Revit 7.
Revit 7 is better on sculpturing - but no NURBS - still.
Revit 7 can export to VIZ in an intelligent way.
And there are lots of other goodies in Revit 7.
But I can not see any Script Language, no Open Plug In Architecture
to expand the program after your requirements and make it interesting for software-developers
and make it possible to cooperate on eg. http://sourceforge.net/
to implant eg. structural design in Revit.
An example Dr. Frame3D seems to be what architects needs to test some structures easy:
http://www.drsoftware-home.com/df3d/df3d.html
But still there is NO STANDARD that is easy to implement. Still CAD is a BABYLONIAN world.
http://go.cadwire.net/?2202,2,1
For me - XML is the GREAT thing - A STANDARD - to secure drawings for the future
and to make cooperation possible. Building houses, schools, hospitals, cities are about cooperation and safeguarding for the future!
There is cooperation on X3D, and Autodesk is one of the firms. Fine! Read more:
http://www.web3d.org/
October 10, 2004
The draft of Amendment 1 to the X3D abstract specification is now available for review and
comment by Web3D consortium members. X3D Amendment 1 (AMD-1) defines several enhancements and
modifications to the X3D abstract specification, ISO/IEC 1977
Company Members of the Web3D Consortium:
3Dlabs, Autodesk, Dassault Systemes, HP, Parallel Graphics Limited....
SVG is XML for 2D and more.
World leading on 2D SVG is Adobe! not Autodesk...
http://www.adobe.com/svg/
Autodesk is trying to spread their own format .dwf for 3D and more...
XML makes it possible to convert documents to different formats and media.
To do it you can use XSL-FO. The ones working with it do not recognize .dwf
they are working with .pdf and other formats.
Here eg. you can read about XSL-FO:
http://xml.apache.org/fop/
Among the world leading in 3D and architcture visualization is Octaga using X3D:
http://www.octaga.com/
And why can not Revit export in .swf - Flash format made open of Macromedia
http://www.macromedia.com/software/flash/open/licensing/fileformat/
.swf you can use also on mobiles!
Being able to send your drawing to someones mobile - that is the future...
integration it with a Flash animation, video, sound....
It is time for cooperation!
Here are some other firms that makes the CAD-world to a BABYLONIAN experience.
Bentley´s Microstation
http://www.bentley.com/en-US/Products/MicroStation/Overview.htm?market=Building
Archicad:
http://www.graphisoft.com/
CATIA:
http://www.3ds.com/products-solutions/brands/CATIA/
What I can see Revit 7 is still a part of this world - sorry to say!
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SOMETHING THAT NOT WAS ON MY WISHLIST för Revit 7
was ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE in the program.
And building it upon a knowledge database built on information from RFID-tags.
But it is coming eg. if you are designing a building - a school, a hospital or even a city
you have some possibilities and some restrictions to follow.
Now you can implement those in your CAD-system
so the architect gets help from the system to find a solution
and if he/she tries not to follow the rules the CAD-system say NO(you fool).
You can also do an environment on Internet for cooperation between the participants in the building process there they together can use some elements to under restricted guidance design a buildning a city in 3D or let them show different design opetions - and ypu can do it democratic - and let this program on the Internet be open to everyone or just to the ones living in the area for everyone to visualize their own design option for an open discussion.
Well is this good or bad or is it something inbetween "gad" or "bood"?
IHere is an article on some aspects on the subject from Architecture Week:
http://www.architectureweek.com/2004/1013/tools_1-1.html
http://www.architectureweek.com/2004/1013/tools_1-2.html
An excerpt:
The roles of computing, with regard to architecture, are thus multifarious and have varying degrees of impacts. They range from being tools that can augment certain traditional design activities, with little impact on the activities themselves, to more pervasive (and invasive) impacts as environments within which design and even inhabitation itself occurs.
The article is written of:
Yehuda E. Kalay is a professor of architecture and director of the Center for New Media at the University of California, Berkeley.
And read about the book Architecture´s New Media
http://mitpress.mit.edu/catalog/item/default.asp?sid=58E5AB0C-40BB-418C-B3CE-F3B51703FAA1&ttype=2&tid=10148
I have tried to stress the importance of XML as an grammar for cooperation. Read more here:
http://upetd.up.ac.za/thesis/submitted/etd-09212001-154304/unrestricted/07chapter6.pdf
And you can find all the chapters in the thesis here:
http://upetd.up.ac.za/thesis/submitted/etd-09212001-154304/unrestricted/
http://info.tuwien.ac.at/ecaade/proc/carrara/carrara.htm
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/044481759X/002-7863615-8745628?v=glance&vi=contents
KAAD(Knowledge-based Assistant for Architectural Design), a frame-based knowledge representation system for the design of hospitals.
Image: G. Carrara, Y.E. Kalay, and G. Novembri
**********************************************************************************************
and building upon a knowledge database built on information on RFID-tags.
***********************************************************************************************
An Artificial Intelligence CAD-system has to build on a knowledge-database and some rules.
For sure you can construct this by talking with experts.
But you can also imagine that you can do it a little more scientific by letting the knowledge-database be built on information from the daily activities of the inhabitants in a 1!984 scenario of Georg Orwell - I hope you have read the book - Here you can find an article ddiscussing the book related to today:
http://www.thecinematicverses.com/editorials/1984reloaded.html
This scenario can be implented today and are implented today by RFID-tags
Radio Frequency IDentification tags placed in shopping goods,, in patients on hospitals, and in your dollar bills!
Whoop! You have missed it? No one have asked you for permission?
RFID and shopping detection:
http://asia.cnet.com/news/systems/0,39037054,39129324,00.htm
RFID and patients
http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=199
RFID and dollar bills:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/022904rfidtagsexplode.html
Revit 7 is missing this - that maskes Revit 7 to a nice program - not a devilish one - but it is on the way - those systems are coming and I hope someones want to discuss it - not just only accepting them...
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X3D and SVG that is the future - I believe - to UNITE all the 3D-CAD-file formats so todays BABYLONIAN-world can go to h-ll...
There is a new book on X3D/SVG:
Visualizing Information Using SVG and X3D
by Vladimir Geroimenko (Editor), Chaomei Chen (Editor)
# Hardcover: 340 pages
# Publisher: Springer-Verlag; (November 15, 2004)
# ISBN: 1852337907
This is the first book devoted to both SVG and X3D as a new and universal means of visualizing information. It presents the state-of-the-art research emerging in this novel area and introduces SVG and X3D fundamentals and leading authoring tools. The key topics covered include: - The foundations of SVG and X3D - Data, information, knowledge and network visualization - Advanced and distributed user interfaces - Visualizing metadata and the Semantic Web - Visual interfaces to Web services - New trends and paradigms in publishing and Interactive TV - Displaying geographically referenced data and chemical structures - Advanced use of Adobe Illustrator and X3D-Edit authoring tools This book will be essential reading not only for researchers, Web developers and graduate students but also for undergraduates and everyone who is interested in using the next-generation computer graphics on their web sites.
You can find it here:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1852337907/ref%3Dnosim/openglorg/002-7863615-8745628
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In Revit 7 you will only have one possibility to use Accurender for rendering.
There is a lot of renderers of different kinds.
Have a look at all the renderers you can use with 3D Studio:
http://www.pointzero.nl/renderers/
Why do not rendered images look real?
Why do not digital-photos give a good picture of reality in eg. Photoshop?
Here is one explanation:
http://cgarchitect.com/news/newsfeed.asp?nid=2259
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In Revit 6 you can save as gbXML - green building XML:
Here you can read more about gbXML:
http://www.xmlmania.com/news_article_1274-HVAC-Industry-Standardizes-on-gbXML-for-Building-Design-and-Engineering.php
And here:
http://www.squ1.com/index.php?http://www.squ1.com/ecotect/ecotect-home.html
But gbXML is not for saving a whole building, but there is another XML-STANDARD called X3D.
Why not implement it intor Revit 7 so you can get a STANDARD for 3D and CAD models/drawings? If you can save the building in X3D then you can translate it into SVG another XML STANDARD used for 2D drawings and more... eg. animations.... So you can animate!!! your building components to explain your drawing to the public. And then there is the XML standard SMIL for mobiles... so you can distribute your animated drawing tio the building site with a little sound to explain to the builders your intentions...
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If you want to understand a little more about XML and building:
http://www.xmlmania.com/news_article_1535-2005-XML-Symposium-Prepares-HVAC-Industry-For-IT-Convergence.php
http://www.caba.org/councils/
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An experiment converting a .rvt-file to .x3d.
To follow the experiment take a look at the image house.jpg.
You can see the house in REVIT. Saved as a RVT-file
Then I exported the house as a DXF-file.
And you can see the result. The colors have changed... There are no more glass in the windows!!!
Then I used Accu Trans from www.micromouse.ca to convert the DXF-file to a X3D-file.
You have use File > Save Object with Options and choose Double Sided.
And I could open the X3D-file in Internet Explorer using a X3D viewer called Flux Player from www.mediamachines.com. And the result is as the same as the DXF-file. It is possible to bring back the glass, but a little more work, some other day perhaps...
To find other alternatives for editing, converting to and viewing X3D you can go to http://www.web3d.org/applications/tools/
If Revit could save as X3D then it was a little easier. But this functions! and not!!!
And if Revit could open a X3D file then.. it was so much much more easier.
And if all other CAD and 3D programs also could do it, then....
It is coming but so slow....
There is a need for X3D, really....
The whole building industry needs it, but... we are not all presidents... yet
But it is coming....
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Take a look at the image notepad.jpg
and you can see how three different file types
describe the same house!!!
The X3D file is only 113 KB and it has a structure. It is a STANDARD from W3C.
And it is as safe as it can be for the future... If programs like Notepad exist in the future. Your children and their children can have a look at the house you designed....
The DXF file is 631 KB and you can read it. But it has no structure. It will be hard for the ones living in the future to understand what it is. Perhaps some recipe on turkey....
The RVT-file. Well I do not understand it. Perhaps you do. I do not think it is safe for the future... Do you? And it is 1428 KB.
Perhaps you can understand why I am so interested in X3D and SVG and all other mark-ups made with the XML grammar...
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A few comments on Revit 7:
NOTE:Files saved in new releases of Autodesk Revit 7 are not compatible with previous releases. However files saved by the same release are compatible across different build numbers.
Well, why not use a STANDARD file format like X3D?
Now Revit 7 is not file-compatible with other CAD and 3D softwares
not even with Revit 6...
Autodesk Revit 7.0 requires Microsoft Internet Explorer 6.
Why this sh-t when where are better and more safe browsers...
Optional Extras
Autodesk Revit DWF Writer
Autodesk Revit PDF Writer 4.2
Sure good! Not only DWF - now also PDF - but why not SVG - a STANDARD???
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