Forums >> Revit Systems >> Technical Support >> Model and Detail Groups with Rooms

aecat

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I have model groups for units in a condo building, and each has an attached detail group. The room is part of the model group and the room name is part of the detail group. When I want to alter the room dimensions in the detail group (I made the tag myself, it allows manual input of the room dimensions) revit gives me an error message saying I need to use the edit group command. ??? I am editing the group, not sure what revit thinks I am doing.

Does anyone have any advice for this situation of grouping rooms and room name tags? 

Exact error message here when I have only one model group in the project and try to edit the room tag:

A group has been changed outside group edit mode.  The change is being allowed because there is only one instance of the type.

THANKS!

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WWHub

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Joined: Tue, May 16, 2006
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The room and tag are associated so both groups are affected and therefore this will not work

We learned a long time ago that including items that need to be altered later in groups is a bad process.  That includes rooms and even possibly doors.  You might group these for initial placement but then remove these items from the group.

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aecat

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Then what are the options for suites in a multi-unit building? I don't want to link the suites in, and I don't want the rooms to be independent of the groups meaning part of the overall floor plate. What options are there to keep the room name and tag internalized to a suite?

Thank you for the quick reply. 

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WWHub

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Once placed, why do you still need the rooms in the groups?   I don't understand.

The parameters of rooms are so easily modified in schedules rather than individually and once removed from the group, they can be.  If you keep them together, you will pay a big price in time needed to edit anything associated with the room.  (Learn to use working schedules sorted as you need and with the parameters you need.  Sometimes itemize every instance is not good.  For instance: Sort by say room type and change the finish in all rooms that may be in different group types but really are the same.   One entry and your done - now resort by another parameter and do something else.  POWERFUL TOOL!)

And having room tags in a group just doesn't appeal to me at all.  Room tags are so easily placed in plans.   Have you ever tagged all not tagged?   The center of the room tag will always be on the crossing of the room 'X' so if the room was placed correctly in the group to begin with, the room tags will be in the correct place when you tag all.  AND!!!! You can always move the tag in a plan to get it out of the way of something else that needs to show.

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aecat

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Hi you are making a great case for keeping the room names out of the groups. I guess it doesn't matter, I am doing the overall apartment areas in a separate area plan and using a generic tag for the name of the unit, so i don't have an issue of rooms overlapping.

I guess I wanted to keep everything bundled because that seems like a more cad xref thing to do. Which is probably my first problem. 

I see the problem I will create for myself later in the schedule process. You are saying that each group with the rooms in them will not duplicate properly?

Thanks so much, this is great advice.

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WWHub

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Just a clarification...

Groups (if not mirrored) will duplicate properly, that is not the issue.  The issue is editing a room parameter in a group that might be placed 50+ times in a project.  If you try to do this from a schedule, Revit will automatically edit group, save it then exit group edit and it will do this for every change in the schedule.  

You could get around that by not using a schedule but by editing the group and modifing all elements for that group at the same time but then you lose the cross connections of same rooms in different groups.  Lets say all bathrooms, no matter what unit, have the same wall finish.  With the rooms in groups, you would have to edit each group and as I explained earlier, it is far easier to do this through a schedule.

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aecat

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I think I understand what you are saying.

My problem is that I can't modfiy a room tag in a detail group when the room is in a model group, even though I would like to keep all the model groups exactly the same. Each time I try to edit a room tag in the detail group, revit will remake all the groups.

For instance, if i have two Unit B's in the project, and I try to change the room tag in one of the bedrooms on one of the attached detail groups, I get the error message:

 Changes to groups are allowed only in group edit mode.  Use the Edit Group command to change to all instances of a group type.  You may use the "Ungroup" option to proceed with this change by ungrouping the changed group instances.

This wouldn't happen if the tag and the room were not part of the group, and it would make for easier scheduling is what you are saying? 

I am looking for the simplest way to have multiple, repeating units with different rooms in the same project. 

THank you for your help.

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