Forums >> General Discussion >> Revit Project Management >> NEW BUILDING DEPARTMENT REQUIREMENTS

WWHub

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Joined: Tue, May 16, 2006
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We have been informed that here in Ohio:

"...

It is no longer acceptable to incorporate fire protective assemblies and through penetration details by reference only. Assemblies and through penetration details must be incorporated into the construction documents as tested. All approved rating numbers, manufacturer’s technical data and complete installation instructions including assembly details, fire-stopping and/or fire-stop penetration systems provided or required per Chapter 7 of the Ohio Building Code shall be provided prior to building permit issuance. ...."

And they seem to suggest that we reproduce the UL data sheets within the drawing set although the above says "construction documents".  

The state building department only wants drawings for electronic submissions - no specifications - so including these documents in the specs may not be possible.

This seems to be a poorly thoughtout requirement.  Are we going to have to publish other items like ANSI, ASTM, etc?

The problem is placing this information in Revit files is nearly impossible.  Sure, we can use jpg images instead of PDF's but the file sizes of the published project become too large to transmit.

Has anybody else seen or worked with requirements like this?

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coreed

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Joined: Fri, Feb 10, 2006
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Not yet here in Michigan, but I here it's on the way.

-----------------------------------

best regards,

coreed,aia

bmpArchitects,Inc.

"Revit has to be implemented, Not installed." 

Long Live Revit

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Roger1w

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We use a tool that converts spread sheets from ms office to cad and import or link them in this way its a smaller file and we can manipulate the area it takes up on a sheet.

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WWHub

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CAD - yes - Revit - NO.

Cad with excel, word or PDF - will not link into Revit unless this tool is something I don't know about.

So please explain your process and tools.

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WWHub

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We have done some research and thinking on this.  We don't see any way we can use jpg images of the UL data in Revit.  The images are poor quality and the resultant file and print filesare way too large!

We found that Specified Technologies already has CAD sheets for their products that are text and images rather than all raster.

http://www.stifirestop.com/technical-library/cad-detail-sheets/

That got us thinking.  How can we get the UL data so we can use it in Revit in the same manner.  Using Adobe, you can print the PDF's created from the UL site to Word documents.  Now you can copy paste from word into a Revit detail using text and images for the sketches.  A much smaller, more Revit solution.  We will use detail views because these can be transfered from our library projects to a current project.

We haven't started the process yet.  Our wall types, library project, has 14 different UL listings each which will be several pages long. 

This is really stupid.  This will only complicate our building process. 

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Roger1w

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Most of this we write in our accompanying  spec.

mention the ulc code in our assembles with refer to spec.

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WWHub

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Roger - we did that too..... BUT now they want it on the drawings!  and they don't want specifications with electronic submittals.

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Roger1w

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What a horrible place our world has become.

here it is all about parking and signage limitations.

even if you plan the parking today if the parking bylaws change just before completion your whole project goes to the pooper.

had 2 die that way just as they were getting underway.

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CDWdavid

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Joined: Mon, Aug 4, 2008
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Here is my two cents from California.

Do construction workers read specs, or UL? No!

Basically, architects are using specs and UL assemblies to protect ourselves. I think as an architect, we should give clear, precise, and concise directions to contractors, show the way we want the buildings to be constructed. Instead of giving the specs and UL and asking them to read, digest and construct from them.

Using a wall assembly as an example, I showed the followings in my detail:

1. The stud size and spacing.

2. Gyp. board type and the sheet layout, horiz. or vertical.

3. Call out the nail/screw type, spacing and pattern.

4. The way to tape edges.

5. If any penetrations, I will show exact the brand and the way I want, with "or approved equal" note.

6. Noted that this is per CBC or UL number so and so.

The construction workers can build that wall by following the directions from 1 thru 5, and no need to read any specs or UL.

The DSA or building department checkers will compare the detail with the referenced assembly as noted in 6, and that is their job.

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WWHub

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CDWdavid,

Although I see your point, I would be worried that you are opening a real can of worms for yourself with that process.  It has always been the industry standards that the contractor is responsible to follow specified published standards ( including fastener sizes - spacing) unless shown otherwise.  You have just shown otherwise.  That means you have now taken on additional responsibility. 

I don't believe your insurance company would like your process.

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CDWdavid

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Hi WWHub,

Thanks! I have never thought about that, and have never been questioned for doing that for more than 30 years, all public-funded open-bidded projects, including some really big projects.

As an architect, my ultimate goal is always to deliver the projects in the most precise, concise and clear way to the people who are constructing them, and I believe that they are all appreciate that attitude. May be that's why nobody questioned. Hoping that I can keep doing this way until my retirement.

Most of all, this way makes me happy.

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