Forums >> Workflow & Implementation >> API & Third Party Apps >> Autodesk Recap

treroseman23

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Has anyone used this software with REVIT? My company is looking at getting a scanner to do verifications of architectural models with what is being built and want to know if ReCap is the way to go. We are a curtainwall contractor so accuracy is pretty important. Are there any sole manuals / training for ReCap other than what gets included in a Revit or Autocad book that briefly talks about it. Thanks for the help in advance.

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WWHub

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How does a scanner verify an architectural model?   I think it would verify the building is being built according to the model.  The egg comes before the chicken.

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treroseman23

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That may be correct but as I have found out first hand, there are a lot of missing information left out of BIM Models either on purpose or accident. I find that things are not dimensioned because they do not want to be responsible if what they designed ends up causing a problem when built.

From what I read, the scanner gets set up at the jobsite (usually done when the steel is erected) and scans the building. It creates a points file that you apparently load into ReCap. Once you do whats necessary to bring the converted file into revit, you overlay it to the model to find the inconsist parts. Whether they made a change in the feild, or whatever it may be. Realistically this could be done at any phase. There are many times when what is designed in Revit, Autocad, ect is changed because the what was in the model was nothing more than a concept or design intent. The Architect relies on whoever is actually installing this stuff to create more accurate drawings. 

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teafoe5

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Your scanner will scan the existing building or whatever you want it to scan.  You will take your scans and load them into AutoDesk Recap where you will put the pointcloud together.  You then will bring the pointcloud into Revit and be able to compare the scaned building to you model.  I have used the Faro Focus 3D in the past and have gotten good results using it as an as-built tool.  It is not an x-ray machine so you will no be able to see what is behind a wall or anything like that but you will get to see if columns, beams etc are where they should be and if they are not you can update your model accordingly.  I have also used a these softwares to help with extracting elements from the pointcloud http://www.clearedge3d.com/ 

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WWHub

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You are correct.  The scanner information can be used to "overlay it to the model to find the inconsist parts"  << If it was built as modeled!  But this is not your need.

The contractor that furnishes items that are constrained by existing (as-built) conditions is responsible to verify those field conditions.  So this is not a matter of comparing if it were built according to the model.  In your case, it is only a tool to determine what the as-built conditions are and to design your system within those limitations.  You can obviously use recap for that purpose but it may be overkill depending on project size and complexity. 

Curtain walls are typically skin items.  A scan would need to look at the conditions from the exterior of the building to see the support locations and the openings.  That may be harder to do with multistory structures.

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treroseman23

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Correct, our need is know what the conditions of the building look like as built not as designed. Of course we usually jump onboard a project mid design phase and come up with a inital design. Once construction starts, we were looking at getting a scanner in order to verify those conditions critical to us. Also we would like to use this information to help us layout out support materials to start building units. We work with multi-story mid to high rise buildings of complex shapes sometimes. So ReCap may be where we want to go. 

We currently draw our shop and fabrication drawings in AutoCad, but as this is getting phased out by most Architectural Firms, we are looking at new options. We are looking at Inventor to draw everything in (down to fastners, gaskets ect.) and Revit to actually place these parts in the drawing in 3D so that the Architect can update their central model and use the actual system we intend on using for the building instead of a random curtain wall system. 

Using the scanner would allow us to go out there when the steel is erected and grab the points as built and adjust the Architects model with the data collected at the site. It I hope would also allow us to find any conflicts (collision detection) that might come in handy to prevent problems during our install process on the site.

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WWHub

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Again - your problem may be the "point of view".  The camera would need to be exterior, not interior, to see what you need to see. 

If you are planning on using a scanner, you need to talk to someone that has them to see if they can do this.  Scanning takes time from a fixed position - not a bouncy elevated platform.

If you want to try to just use pictures and this program, then try it out.  The program is free to try.  Those pictures you can take from a bouncy platform as long as you have visible registry points to stitch views together. 

Please come back with your results.

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rbcameron2

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Its not super accurate depending on your intended outcome.  Within an inch or two supposedly, which is fine for cheap field verification where an inch or two variance won't matter.  I was just at a conference last month where this was a discussion point and two rep's from Autodesk said it depends on your distance from source and how good your camera is.  They've tested accuracy to within 2mm before but that was optimal.

If you have a laser scanner, that's probably more accurate, but if I have a $200 camera vs. a $40,000 laser totalling station and the camera is within 2 inches of it, I'd weigh my options.

That being said, this technology is getting better and better and I plan on using it soon for field verification.

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RB Cameron

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treroseman23

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Well as we approach reaching a decsion on what we are purchasing, we seem to be finding some conflicting information. We are getting the MS50 by Leica (72,000 est). This is not a total station from what I am told. It scans roughly 50,000 points so you probably couldn't scan a mid rise or a larger size low rise building with it. You can scan probably certain sections of it. I am suppose to get trained on it soon so then I will know for sure.

Then once its scanned you need software to talk to the scanner to create the point cloud file. Once that is complete then you have to use another software to take your point file. This is where the problem occurs. Leica says that their software is better and ReCap is a spin off of thier software to take control of the market. Autodesk says they have a better software as it has improved 10 fold in the last few years. Then there is another software (Edgewise Building) that will take the point cloud file and help automatically determine what is a wall, window, door, floor, ect. Finally there is Cyclone, which cost 10,000 to start and you have to get modules depending on your workflow. 

We ultimately want to draw our curtain wall extrusions in Inventor (to draw all the nuts, bolts, seals, gaskets, ect.). We would then do our fabrications in Inventor and our shop drawings. We would like to use Revit, for visualization, presentations, renderings on buildings, and to export it to Navisworks Manage. We would use Navisworks to do clash detection and also to find out if our CW system hangs too far off where we want it. All of  this according to my boss would hopefully speed up the process of knowing where to install the starter track and identify any known problems ahead of time.

How do we know whats crap and what is not? Either way it's huge investment, and lots of man hours are going to need to be invested to get whatever software we have to work for us.

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