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Forums >> General Discussion >> Revit Project Management >> Shell and Tenant Finishout
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How do some of you manage a Shell and Tenant Finish Out?
We can have a shell under one contract and numerous Tenants under numerous contracts all with different project numbers at different times and phases.
We need to be able to pull up an individual snap shop of a finished portion of a project at any time. Right now I am copying the model to different project numbers and setting them up as individual projects because MEP can't connect systems thu links, structural wants to keep their model as one and Architectural is all over the map and a daisy chain of links.
This is a time bomb and I don't understand enough about the billing process to put order to the madness. We are thinking about phases but this get just as confusing and makes the model file unbearably large and unstable and cumbersome and a lot of human error is involved keeping up with the phase, phase filters and sheet organization.
I am sure I am not the first to encounter this as a problem and am curiouse to what others are doing. We can have as much as 5 or more people working in one model at a time and up to 10 or more working on one project at a time in the different disciplines. Using AutoCAD and Microstaiton was a bit simplier because they are basicly line drawings but Revit is different beast and you can't just copy things around, reference, and override anymore.
any advise?
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Quote by: Holtz, Lou
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Are you what - MEP? Interiors?
MEP should be using linked model but own their own entities.
For multiple projects, you can have a main shell project with seperate projects linked back in and the individual projects with the shell linked into them.
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What am I, good question...
I am none of the above, I sit here and fix problems and customize, that is all I do. I don't do production so I am having a hard time getting my head around this.
If MEP could connect systems thru links your answer would work fine but because MEP can't we have to take other actions as mentioned in my OP. We can't do it all in one model because of the size issue and contract issue and the workshare issue with so many people working in one model. We would spend more time relinquishing and saving to central than actual work.
I have tried linking and binding but then there are elements taking up the same space, there is not an "overkill" command for Revit. Or the sytem just breaks and loses information.
The firm I work for is all of the above, Arch, Mech, Elec, Plumb, FirePro, Stru, construction Managment, etc... everything all under one roof so we do, do things a bit different than a firm that is just a single element such as Architectural or Engineering firm as a stand alone.
Anyway, it is not a perfect world but we will figure something out. How I wish it was as simple as you say...
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Quote by: Holtz, Lou
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It really doesn't matter if you are under one roof or not. Revit has a built in process that allows sharing of data across multiple disciplines. Just because you are in one office doesn't mean you should all be working in the same model and should not. In addition, Revit understands that sometimes, you need to own the components in a model. That is why we have the copy monitor process. If the architect places a toilet in a project the MEP doesn't have to use that.
It sounds like you jumped in over your heads. I think you and your staff need some outside training on this process.
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Thanks Hubb
I have very good understanding of how Revit works and how it doesn't work, Revit is a great software but it does fall short in some areas, I can see very clear that you don't understand my issue and it is very hard for me to explain it in writing, yes I agree that we do need some outside help with our issue hence why I posted a question here as a start to see if someone might have an idea of what we are doing, but I fall short in my explanation of the issue. Somethings are easer to understand if seen rather than explained in typing of words.
Revit is still a growing software, hence the wishlist.
Sorry I was a little offended by you telling me that I jumped in over my head, when I feel you don't understand my issue. But this is what I do, I jump in over my head and I solve problems. Opinions like that, I feel you should to keep to yourself.
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Quote by: Holtz, Lou
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Sorry you took my advice as a criticism but when I see you write: "...because MEP can't connect systems thu links..." that indicates your MEP folks don't understand how to use the tools Revit provides. Perhaps reading this will help:
http://wikihelp.autodesk.com/Revit/enu/2012/Help/Revit_User%27s_Guide/2214-Collabor2214/2357-Multi-Di2357/2370-Copying_2370
Revit is a complex software and to use it effectively, all users need to be on the same page. This is even more important with shared models. The whole shared process needs to be understood and rules set up AND FOLLOWED.
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no worries hubb, I do appriciate the help.
It has nothing to do with copy monitor or the Architectural model. it has to do with MEP models not being able to conect system information and calculations thru links. I can not tie into to a linked model's pipe and continue on with the same system run. Due to this I have to copy the entire MEP model to the new project in order for the system Analyze to work, this goes for Elec, Plum, Mech & FirePro. Now with more than one project going on at the same time, if the Shell or other Tenant gets changed or updated the other Tenants needs to be updated too for correct system analyzes. Since I can't connect two pipes together thru links the work has to be done twice or more to match, binding a link breaks the system analyze, copy paste breaks the system analyze. Because of contract and billing and the business side of all this, I am wondering how others are handling this process. We can't just simple give our clients the entire model when they only pay for a portion of it. How are others handling this process of setting up the models or breaking up the models for delivery. How are they organizing the work flow? Phasing seems to be the logical choice but it can be a nightmare to orgaize and again we don't want to have one large model, they become very slow and cumbersome to work with, specialy when you have as many people as we do working in a model at one time on a single project. and on the billing side we need to keep each model in its corresponding project folder.
We need to change our thinking process and the way we structure our workflow and I am only trying to find others with examples of how they do it, because I am going about it the wrong way.
How much work do you do using Revit MEP?
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Quote by: Holtz, Lou
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Either I don't understand or you don't. If all of the items to be connected ARE IN the MEP model, then they can do the calculations. The process is COPY-monitor. Because the items are copied into the MEP model, you don't even need the link on! Spaces are also in the MEP model. They are different that the architects rooms but they do use the linked architectural model.
http://wikihelp.autodesk.com/Revit/enu/2012/Help/Revit_User%27s_Guide/0325-Build_th325/1164-Rooms_an1164/1166-Rooms1166/1208-Sharing_1208/1210-How_Revi1210
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Muiltiple copies of the same model just for office/client management is a real bad idea. What happens when you do changes or as builts, are you planning an going into every copy of the project?? I think you need to have all the MODEL elements in one model, then do the CD's with links of the one model. This is Building Information Modeling, not office management. Revit is really not designed to coordinate a project between tenants this way. If you are a veteran Revit user, you know using the software in a way it is not intended will lead to disaster. I'd put the billing secondary to the modeling. Do not try to use phases as just organization for the tenent improvements, it needs to be a coordination of TIME. The multiple users really should not be an issue if you are using worksets, and the save to central should be done once, at the end of the day.
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Hubb, I can not COPY/monitor Pipes, electrical wire, ducts from one MEP model to the next MEP model and do calculation. I can Copy/Monitor Grids, fixtures, devices, levels, wall and floors but not pipes, no matter how hard I click my mouse it does not work. Please open Revit MEP create a piping system, save the file. Open another Revit MEP and link in the one you just saved and try to Copy/Motor the pipes themself. I might be holding my tongue wrong, this has happened before, but I can not get it to Copy monitor. By all means you can make it work, please tell me and you will be my hero and I will eat humble pie... But this is still not my point of this post.
Rod, Thank you, you understand what I am talking about... Yes, I am a veteran (at least I think so) but maybe not as experianced as some in this forum (I do not do production so I do have gaps)... I can see this becoming a time bomb waiting to explode, We made the mistake and just started working with Revit the same as CAD but as we get more experiance I can see this is not the way to go and all of a sudden got religion...
You are saying exactly what I am thinking but need someone else to tell me so I can get my head wrapped around it. I need to let this go for a minute but would like to discuss this topic more if your willing to share ideas with me.
Thanks
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Quote by: Holtz, Lou
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OH.... You mean the MEP model is split up? How's that working for you? Oh - yea - it isn't!
So your solution is to what? Put everything in one model.... well right. I think that is what I have been saying all along!
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I think you need to set your priorities. Priority one should be getting the real world conditions modeled a accurately as possible to take full advantage of the MEP and structural load calcs., and being able to rely on them being up to date. Project numbers, office organization, coordination, and keeping the full model away from the clients should be way down on the list.
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aahhh, now your catching up hub, thanks for the sarcasm... oh, by the way, you have been saying COPY/Monitor all along not work in the same model, let me go back to your post #4
"Just because you are in one office doesn't mean you should all be working in the same model and should not."
And yes, it isn't working out for us, that's why I am here asking for advice about work flow porcess not copy/monitor for the umteenth time...
Rob with all due respect, I don't set the priorities, managment does, and I am trying to point out the road we are on and that we need to change direction and for what reasons. We are a firm of 200 so change is not easy specialy when I can't even explain it to an "experiance" Revit user such as hub how the heck I am I going to explain it to the number crunches that have no clue to what I am taling about.
This whole topic has done nothing but frustrate me. Next time you see a post from me Hub just ignore it, I don't need your links to the help menu, or your quick draw anwers to up your forum ranking...
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Quote by: Holtz, Lou
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