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Forums >> Revit Structure >> Technical Support >> Familiy Abuse (Trouble with Base Plates)
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Joined: Wed, Jul 7, 2010
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Currently working on a new library of structural base plates. The challenge is that I need to make the holes in the baseplate move vertically. I was able to achieve success on the detail components, but when I apply the same principals to a Model component it fails me. I have been trying to set a label up from the bottom edge of the base plate to the center of the hole, but I am unable to set the dimension to the center of the hole. Infact the void extrusion has become two half circles instead of centreline reference. Attached is the file. Can anyone help explain this?
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When you say "vertically", I'm assuming you mean up/down on the screen. With that assumption, I rebuilt your family. I put refplanes on everything and labeled the refplanes, not the modeled geometry. I had to redraw the circles at the intersections of the refplanes. There's no way (that I know of) to manually dimension/lock the centers of circles, but if you draw them on refplanes the automatically lock to them.
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FWIW you can dimension to the center of the circle in sketch mode, then change the dim value to 0 and lock it. I find that 0 dimensioning can be very useful especially in complex geometry when avoiding reference planes is preferred.
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Always use Ref Planes!
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You don't need a reference plane for everything! Revit will associate elements with other elements and planes when they share a common location but when they don't, you can use the dim lock. Be aware that if you add a plane after the element, the element does not automatically associate with the plane unless you dimension it and lock it. This is why you create useful work planes first (and name them). Just don't go crazy with work planes and work lines.
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Oh the troubles I have with Baseplates. I gave up and decided to model each one individually. It would be nice to see a fully parametric baseplate on here or even some sort of editor in revit for them. The challenge of trying place custom hole spacing is absolutely ridiculous. Especially when you have 20 holes on a plate! The other pi$$ off is legend components. They make me AnGrY! It is nice to see something you modelled come up as a detail. But you can't detail it, keynote it or rotate it. I can't even dimension the holes unless I set up elaborate ref lines in the family. What the hell is the point of these things? I want to master this so that I can set up my drawing template with easy to detail items, so that the old AutoCad / Revit users in my office will stop importing DWG's in every detail! Right now they don't see the detailling power of Revit, and as an experienced Revit tech, neither am I.
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I must agree, I don't like to detail in Revit either. Every detail you have to start from scratch, with acad you have a whole libary with ready details it's just a mather of copy and paste. Each new REVIT project I start the detailing in REVIT but it just takes to much time.
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" It would be nice to see a fully parametric baseplate on here or even some sort of editor in revit for them. The challenge of trying place custom hole spacing is absolutely ridiculous. Especially when you have 20 holes on a plate!" - I don't know if this is what you really need but i don't use the VOIDS to create those holes parametric, just in the main extrusion create the ref. planes and the circles like you need, then create parameters to control that...
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Yeah, I stopped using voids. Parametric is easy on a 4 hole plate. But it is difficult on a 2,6 or more hole plates.
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Gebber wrote: "...Every detail you have to start from scratch, with acad you have a whole libary with ready details it's just a mather of copy and paste...." I could not disagree any more with this. ACAD is 2D details and if you want to do those in Revit - go ahead... they are fully transportable from project to project just like in ACAD and they are so much easier to do in REVIT ! If you are doing 3D details, then you can't even compare that to CAD. First, you have model elements in the right place and they will adjust in detail when you change them in the model. True, with 3D based details, you do start with the model but.... you can bring in a collection of standard stuff just like 2D details.
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1 hole, 2 hole, 4 hole parametric but not straightforward
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I agree with most the comments. Connections in general is an area where Revit requires much improvement. Even simple baseplates bring out a variety of limitations. A connection family should have the ability to maintain a relationship between ALL elements that it is interacting with. At the very least we should have some sort of dialog to place these elements efficiently and modify/update them when their hosting members are refined. With that being said we don't have the above so the best we can do is to parameterize non-host based components. This still does work very well and is a huge step above AutoCad once you get comfortable with the family editor. Large quantities of holes/fasteners should not be any more difficult than a small quantity provided they are equally spaced. When they are independant (this may have been referred to as custom previously) it exposes limitations with constraints. Sure you could nest all kinds of holes/fasteners within the family to attempt to cover every possible configuration but the resulting family will perform poorly and likely confuse everyone except the creators. Personally the best approach I have found is to create the basic baseplate conditions constrained properly allowing multiple equally spaced array parameters where applicable. Then also create a second set of "dumb" families in the same configurations but without the parameters. The second set can be manually editted (via the family editor) to create the not-so typical types. The end user can simply use the "save as" option, open the family edittor and move stuff around as needed without worrying about constraints. As far as detailing is concerned due to the limitations of live detailing and the amount of effort required to do this appropriatelly (and comply with graphic standards) I still recommend old fashion 2d native Revit details for annotating/dimensioning.
Edited on: Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 7:05:51 AM
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