Forums >> Community >> The Studio >> REVIT 2009 VS ARCHICAD 12

formagroup

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I know it's boring subject but I would like to know an opinion someone who knows well Archicad 12 and recent Revit how AC 12 compares to Revit 2009

I know Revit very well and I don't know Archicad at all, but really want to know.

Thank you for any help

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cganiere

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I doubt you could find many people that have used both for more than a short time. After spending scores of hours in Revit I ventured into the Archicad world. Unlike a word processor comparison between MS Word & Open Office Write ther differences in basic use are so fundamentally different someone that is comfortable in one program would have serious productivity losses switching. Even programs as different as Adobe Photoshop and Gimp are closer than Revit & Archicad.

If you really want to work through it, download the trial version and see if you can build your house. I never got that far.

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sugna

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I am a Archicad user. I hope to know more about revit.

 I think both ArchiCAD and Revit has been developed with different appoarch. So, they may use different method to do the same thing.

So I think they both have strengths and weakness.

However, I think because of Autodesk is the market player. therefore, people would stick to every autodesk product whenever 

they choose a new product. Just like, do you think LV's bag is that good? why so most people choose LV's bags? because of the brand

name.

Whenever people look for BIM, they must be seach around and look at Revit instead of ArchiCAD. They don't concern about the history

of Revit, they just look at Autodesk.

Revit was only acqired by Autodesk, not invented by Autodesk, and I don't believe in their compatibility.

By the way, just want to know why I can't use Safari in my mac to reply in this forum. I am using firefox right now.

and the font size is so small here too.......... very difficult to read

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Hence

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armour35

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Im with hence on this one. I have used ArchiCAD a fair bit at one practice and also doing my own work but now i have switched to Revit

there is no turning back. Revit for me is just much better workflow and is easier to use. I also switched about a year ago from pc to the mac platform

which as you know archicad runs on, they do have a windows version but was worried that i may have to go back to the pc to run revit. This is not

something i would want to do as the macs are miles better in my opinion but step forward bootcamp and then parralles. I used bootcamp first

but got sick of botting in and out so downloaded a trial version of parralels to try revit and it runs on my imac and mac book pro sweet

as a nut so this is how i intend to work.

So a bit off topic but Revit over ArchiCAD for me, i find i want to use revit all the time, did not feel that way with AC 

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cgillon

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I am surprised at the responces regarding Revit vs Archicad.  I am a 11 yr user of Archicad but more importantly a 12 year licenced Architect and have done a recent evaluation of Revit.

Maybe most of those making comments are only modeling, but as a total package, Revit does not make the cut for several simple reason.  These might seem trivial for some, but for an architect that is also attempting to operate an efficent business, I would chose Archicad or evaluate another BIM software before investing in Revit.  I will name a couple items only (no need to beat a dead horse):

Dimensions:  dim string cannot be added to in middle of string.  (huh..  unbelievable)  It is my understanding that when project moves from schematic design thru construction documents...the project evolves and changes.  The last thing I want are staff members "redrawing" dims.

Sheets/layouts:  Once you have a list of sheets, you cannot reorder them. (in Archicad, simply drag and drop sheet in any order) Also on sheets, views only are numbered based upon order placed on sheets- this is unacceptable in my opinion.

References:  If you are in project A and you have referenced project B then you can see project B in project A.  If you reference project C into B, then you will not see project C in project A.

These are only several items that get to the heart of this - Autodesk is going to continue to have the same mentality with Revit as they did with Autocad and ADT.

 It does amaze me that 6 years after Autodesks aquisition of Revit that something as simple as dimension editing is not solved.

Archicad continues to lead the BIM industry in innovation and creating a software that allows Architects to tailor to Architects needs. With Revit, it appears that Architects are having to fit a square peg into a round hole - seems the tail is wagging the dog. 

For more info besides my opinion - see Cadylst: Archicad 12 latest review.

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cganiere

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You can add dims in the middle of the string - "edit witness lines"

You can reorder sheets. Just type in the new sheet number

You can do the A - B - C you juust have to switch how it is linked (use attached instead of overlay)

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Hence

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cgillon, i have to disagree with you 100%. I think archicad hinders the architectural flow more than it helps.  I understand that you have a lot of experience using archicad and know how to make the program work for you, but just as a for example; at my new firm, the Archicad firm, my co-worker who is also new to archicad, spent almost 8 hrs trying to make a curtain wall with a custom mullion pattern. He flipped when i showed him how easy it was to do in Revit.  I know Revit has a lot of short falls, i'm sure i have post on this site pointing them out.  But the one thing i have found from using both programs, is just how much more efficient Revit is.  A prime exe. is using the work sharing in Archicad vs central file in Revit.  It takes so long to send and receive chages in Archicad only to find out that you still don't have the right views in you work set and have to start all over again to check out the right views, where in Revit, every thing is right there for you to use.  And you don't have to go through the hassle of asking you "Team leader" to change stuff for you.  It took me 8 mins today to move a call out tag because i didn't have the right views signed out and had to change my work space 3 times to get them all.  I feel that so much time is wasted in ArchiCAD.  

Another huge issue is coordination.  In Revit, when you draw a section, the section marker appears in every view it applies to; In ArchiCad you have to add it in, and if the tag moves, you have to go back and move it.  THe real kicker is that it is the same thing for col. lines.  Dimensioning is terrible in ArchiCD i can't even believe you would bring it up as a positive over revit.  For starters, you can actually adjust the extension of the dim line so it looks like it is going to the right object, and the fact that you can use the dimensions to change an elements location is so much better, (not to mention Revit dosn't let you cheat with you dimensions and add in false measurements unlike archicad).  

If i sound angry  its only because i had to issue a set of drawings using archicad this week and had to stay late every night because the program took to long to process, and the methods needed to make a drawing look correct were so convoluted and asinine, that it made me want to give up on computers all together and pick up a pencil and straight edge.

 So to end my rant, i'll simply say that, in my opinion, ArchiCAD is 2d drafting program that has added 3d capabilities (similar to Autodesk ADT) while Revit is a fully 3d program that embraces the nature of BIM while offer a more intuitive and user friendly interface, that I consider to be more in line with architectural thinking of the 21st century.

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cgillon

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Without naming names or company's, early this week a specialist with a national Revit reseller flew in from several states away to answer many questions.  Adding witness lines - this specialist stated that editing this was not avalible.  He also stated that you could not reorder sheets.  The referenceing example is the same one out of the revit reference manual regarding project references.

 So with "add witness line", is this a alt-click or a diologe pull-down. This specialist also said that the palletes are set, cannot make modifications - would be nice to be alble to create a button or a key stroke for this "add witness line" command.

You mentioned that sheets can be renumbered by enter sheet number; how about view placements on sheets - do these number in the sequencial order placed on sheets only or the these be reordered by dragging.?  Or better yet, can the geograhic location of view on sheet determine the detail number while maintaining number automation.

Now that I feel I have been misinformed by this specailist, also:

Do library object have grips for ease of editing? Objects do not seen to be 'parametric' as I know it. For instance, if I have 50 doors in a small projct and all of the doors have 2.5 " wide trim, then can I select all door at one time and chande this common parameter to 5.5 inch trim.  These 50 doors may hve some differeces such as width or glass in one panel an solid in another.  Is this possible? Ths specialist shared that any door diferences with exception of materials required a differnt object.

With referenced projects or unit types - I was also told that walls will not heal (clear up) from efernce to live project.

Project Sharing - can user work by geographical area with maquee (this gives teamate access to all stories, all layers 9families, etc within marked area - powerful)

Revit still appears to be much more rigid than Archicad.

Your further opinion would be appreciated. I may have been misinformed on issues.  On what i was told, you cetainly cnnot blame position.

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cgillon

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Hence, see previous post regarding my situation.  I do not want to make anyone angry here.  However, I will disagree with flexiblity issue regarding Archicad.  I obvoiusly do not have any experience in Revit and you cetianly do not have a high level of experience in Archicad. Let's agree to disagree on this.

 Archicad not being user friendly is rediculous - select a wall.  On info box you will see many parameters you can change without opening a diologe box like top and bottom of wall elevations.  Also, are you in AC12?

 If I want to insert a window on a curved wall in a specific location, in Revit - I have to  draw a refernce plane (standar line will not work), the place windw somewhere on wall (will not allow direct placement on intersection), then choose 'align' then pick ref plane then pick window.  Thsi is about 11 key/mouse strokes to place a windo in a curved wall where i want it. In Archicad, if I use a line, then it is 6 key/mouse strokes.  (if I do not use line but use divide, the it is 4 key/mouse strokes.

 These are still issues I have based upon my limited interaction with Revit.  Any more thoughts?

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timbo89

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cganiere

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Revit Specialist? I am suprised that a Revit Specialist misrepresents the software's capabilities. I guess the software is so complicated, that the sales people don't know it very well. I imagine that the sales people for Autocad don't know its capabilities either. I've seen some crazy stuff in Autocad that I am unable to reproduce. Want grips in a family, use a line based or two pick one. Sometimes using 3D is the best way and sometimes good 'ol 2D is the best way. Are your walls not cleaning up properly - I've had that problem - it takes more time to clean it up in 3D than 2D, but you can use either method and I've used both.

I've been using Revit part time for four years. I Read AUGI, visit RevitCity, and attend user group meetings almost monthly.

And I still don't know everything there is to know about Revit. I am considered a relative expert in Revit.

I've been using Autocad full time for 12+ years since version 11. I subscribed to uunet Autocad discussion for two years, read Cadalyst for many years, attended university level classes and one all day workshop. I've written my own LISP files and created my own buttons.

Revit is more fun to work with. Revit has its problems, bugs, quirks and work arounds. It gets bogged down. Adding multiple people on a job is a management problem (just like in any software - Word, Excel, Autocad, ...).

I've worked overtime in both programs to get project out the door. 

Revit has massive potential. If my math skills were more advanced I could do much more, faster and with less effort. Revit has many time saving bits that blow away Autocad. The door schedule is linked to the model - one click and it zooms to the door you need to find. "Tag all not tagged" boy, is that a relief. It detects duplicate numbers ( doors, windows, details, ...) Ever had a block in Autocad that you couldn't find or delete? Revit list all the groups, links and families in a project browser (and you can "select all" or "delete" or "replace" . Revit tries to take care of the nitty gritty so you can focus on the design. 

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Christopher Ganiere, NCARB, LEED AP

www.developmentone.net

Skype: ArchitectCRG

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cgillon

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No, Archicad does not have tempoary dims.  How does this work & when would you use them?  Certainly you could creat layer for temp dims, but not sure what valute is for a project that is eveloving.  Again, I would not want staff doing work twice.

And for Hence, next time you are detailing in Archicad, go to Detailing library, many items here will help.  Also, if there is a 2d component you like to use with Revit or Autocad, then save out as a DWG, them merge into Archicad file, sectect 2d elemets, then save as library part.  Of course, just as in Revit, library developent in important (not all parts are in either software out of the box).  It is simple to covert one's autocad library or any other dwg library for archicad.

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Hence

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I agree, firstly, that this is a friendly conversation. Any anger that came from my message was purely left over frustration from the week, and using a program that i am not familiar enough in. So, for your first question, not, i am using AC 11, i work for a small firm, 4 ppl, and we do not have the resources to upgrade. I am not familiar w/ inserting windows into curved walls, i am downloading a trial of Revit at home now to test it out.  The reason i say that AC is not user friendly is because the dialog boxes can get very complicated. Just as an example, the window dialog box has so many possible settings that it almost feels like you have to be an expert in windows just to create something that works for your project.  My initial reaction to the dialog boxes is just that it is too much information and it is hard for a new user to understand what each control effects.  I am sure that if i had as much experience with AC as i did Revit i would understand more issues like that but, i have been using AC for about two months not, not very long i know, but i only used Revit for about a little under 2 yrs. 

To answer your last question, Temp dims are dimensions that automatically appear when you place an object in revit.  They allow you to click on the dimension and enter a value. for example, if i place a wall any where on the screen i will see thin line dimensions going to other objects, if i know i want that object to be 11' from the object the temp dimension is drawn to, i just type that in for the dim value, the wall moves to 11' from the other object and if i deselect the wall the dims go away, or i also have the option to turn the temp dimension into a real dimension and have it appear all the time and be plotted.

I suppose that it all comes down to a matter of preference and experience.  since i am experienced in Revit i am more efficient in it and would be able to work quicker with the program.  11ys of using any thing would make you very experienced with it and i am sure that there is very little that you do not understand with AC.  I would challenge you though, to really try out Revit.  I feel that it is just a completely different concept of drafting.  It is hard to readjust you mind set to use it, but once you get it going, it really makes a difference in the way you think about buildings.  I am unexperienced when it comes to architecture,  I graduated with my masters degree only 2 1/2 yrs ago, but as a student of architecture during this computer boom, i had the opportunity to experiment with 3d design.  In school i used Autodesk ADT to create buildings until i found sketch up.  The ease and flexibility of sketch up made it so much easier to achieve my design.  I learned Revit at my fist job after graduation and found a great balance between the accurate documentation of ADT and the clean intuitive interface of SketchUP.  I think its simplicity and not having the ability to add buttons and customize the interface too much is Revit's beauty. Yes it can be a very complex and Powerful program, but at its core, it is simple. Pick a wall, draw it. Pick a door, place it.  That is BIM and both ArchiCAD and Revit do it.  we all could probably make list of things we don't like about each program, and those list would be the same size.  I have looked at similar post to this one at Graphisoft and have been in the position of cgillon.  So if you have a question about what Revit can do vs ArciCad, i would love to talk about it.

Thank you for your opinions.  this is an interesting topic that has no real resolution but is still enjoyable to debate about.

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formagroup

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Hi again

I was playing with Archicad 12 for a 30 days, and as well with newest Vectorworks and I can tell right away that nothing is even close to Revit.

I wanted to switch to Archicad 12 because switch to Mac. Archicad 12 reminds me Architectural Desktop, which is trying to suck as much as possible from

ancient platform and look like high-tech. It just doesn't happen, Archicad is a 20 years old platform and all adjustments are just graphical or drafting tools.

Revit is just the revolution, High-Tech, new core and concept for Architect's work.

There is no tool right now on the market even close to Revit, and all of that sympathy to AC12 by others is only because those people work in that software and don't want to feel "behind" but the fact is they are so behind.

If Archicad will have smarter engine and all of the divisions like stair, roof, floor, walls, windows, doors, plumbing fixtures etc will be similar to the curtain wall in AC12 then I may to look at AC again.

Now - REVIT !!!!!!!!!!! nothing else 

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